VOICEAMERICA
OCTOBER 21, 2003
"DISABILITY MATTERS"
HOST: JOYCE BENDER
1:00 CST/2:00 EST
Captioning provided By:
Caption First, Inc.
P.O. Box 1924
Guest: Joan Stein
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Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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>> Welcome to "Disability Matters" with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views and opinions expressed on this show are solely those of the host, guest and callers. Now, the host of "Disability Matters," here is Joyce Bender. .
>> JOYCE BENDER: Welcome to our show. This is your host, Joyce Bender, with "Disability Matters." And I am so excited because we are talking about something today that is very near and dear to my heart and it really does require a new attitude in the United States, and that is the perception about accommodations, the perception about bringing someone into the workplace and what is involved to bring them into the workplace.
I was thinking about what President Bush said his first 30 days into the presidency this year when I was doing research about accommodations. February 1, 2001, he said: "Wherever a door is closed to anyone because of a disability, we must work to open it. Wherever any job or home or means of transportation is unfairly denied because of a disability, we must work to change it." And isn't that what our show is all about today? Because we're going to talk about accommodations. And we're very honored to have with us as our guest the CEO of Accessibility Development Associates, Incorporated, very well known in the United States for her work in civil rights as an advocate, in addition to being the CEO of ADA Inc., Joan Stein. Joan, are you with us?
>> JOAN STEIN: I am. Thanks for the introduction; it was wonderful.
>> JOYCE BENDER: It's truly an honor for me to have you on this show. Before we get going, just to make sure everyone knows a bit more about you, could you begin by telling us what ADA, Inc. is all about, which is the company that you're the CEO of.
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes, Accessibility Development Associates, otherwise known as ADA Incorporated, is a private consulting firm. We provide a wide range of consulting services to businesses, corporations, entertainment venues, municipal buildings, the whole range of the community, to help them identify and remove both the architectural and the attitudinal barriers that exist within their organizations that would prevent someone with a disability from entering and fully participating in what that organization has to offer. And that could be as an employee, that could be as a visitor or that could be as a paying customer. And we do that in a variety of ways. We do a lot of work reviewing facilities to identify the barriers, and work with the owners on removing them.
We do a lot of training of both employers and employees, to help them understand more appropriate ways of interacting with individuals. And one of the most exciting things that I get excited about us doing is that we work on brand new projects and work with architects and engineers so that as things are designed and built to be new, that they are universally accessible and usable by everyone, whether they have a disability or not.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Joan, I have to tell you, when I think about questions, history and the disability area, if I had to think of one person I would pick up the phone and call, it would be Joan Stein. So why don't you tell our listeners how you first became involved in the disability area.
>> JOAN STEIN: Okay. Well, I joke with people and say that I'm a recovering social worker, and I get to about step 10 and fall back down. I'm a social worker by training and worked for about 15 years in the area of mental health and mental retardation, working primarily with young adults with mental retardation and mental illness issues. And in 1990, I was leaving one position with a mental health agency and was hired by the Three Rivers Center for Independent Living, otherwise known as TRCIL. It's a nonprofit agency that provides services to individuals with disabilities to empower and enable them to live independently in the community. So I went to work at TRCIL as the fundraiser. And at about that same time the Americans with Disabilities Act was being signed into law.
And what I said to the then board of directors was: This is going to create a huge cottage industry. People were going to need and be willing to pay for expert services to help them navigate the whole area of disability law. And TRCIL as an organization is consumer controlled, which means greater than 51 percent of its staff and board of directors are people with disabilities.
So I went to the board and said you know, instead of just going to a corporation and asking them for a grant, let's start a business and let's go to that corporation and say: You have a need. We have a way of fulfilling it. Our fees are X, Y, and Z. And we're better than anyone else doing it because we have been doing it all our lives. Hire us. So in 1992 we incorporated as the wholly-owned for-profit subsidiary of TRCIL. I put an emphasis on wholly-owned and for-profit. Unfortunately, over the many, many hundreds of years of disability issues and disability discrimination, we had to be very conscious of the issue that people would expect less of us because we were people with disabilities. And when the board said well, let's make it a nonprofit, I said no, because then people will not expect to have to pay. They will think that we get all our money from the government and they will think that because we are people with disabilities, that we wouldn't be able to do as well as someone else. So we incorporated as a for-profit.
We started our first month still working at the center, the three of us, my two partners, Carol and Cliff Payne and I. And, unfortunately, perception became reality. Because when someone would call and want to talk about our services, the receptionist would answer the phone and then she would put the call up to me and I'd start to talk about our fees. And they say you are a nonprofit, you get all your money from the government. So what we did was moved out of our home and headquarters at TRCIL and moved into a tiny little room in downtown Pittsburgh, right in the heart of the business district, and when the phone rang, we answered it and said: Accessibility Development Associates and people said how much do you charge? So, that is when we really got launched as a business and embarked on this what I call the most wonderful ride of my life in the last 11 years, developing an awareness to everyone, of everyone, that we are all in this together. And to help businesses remove barriers so that people can come in and have equal participation.
>> JOYCE BENDER: You know, Joan, I have to agree with you 100 percent about your philosophy about the for-profit versus the not-for-profit.
Because there is this perception that exists in the business world today that if you go to them and you say you're doing work, that you're a for-profit company and at the same time something that you're doing is principally disability related, such as at Bender Consulting Services, my company, we employ people with disabilities, we do IT consulting, and you know compete against other firms doing the same thing, except their employees are nondisabled. When you say that, disability, immediately people think nonprofit.
>> JOAN STEIN: Exactly.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Immediately, they think that and sometimes, unfortunately, I'm sure you have run into this, is that their perception is that you wouldn't be as competitive as someone else.
>> JOAN STEIN: Exactly. And for my many years of being a social worker and in particular working with people with mental illness and mental retardation, I constantly worked with my clients to help them to understand that society, we have to perform at 120 percent. Because we have to be better than the rest of the population, because people expect us to not be able to do things.
And that transcends from someone with a cognitive disability, such as --
>> JOYCE BENDER: Hold that thought. We will be right back with Joan Stein. This is Joyce Bender on "Disability Matters."
>> Welcome back to "Disability Matters," with Joyce Bender. If you have a question or comment for Joyce or a guest, please call at 1-888-335-5204. Here is Joyce Bender.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Here we are today with our guest, Joan Stein, president and CEO of Accessibility Development Associates, and this is your host, Joyce Bender. Joan, we are talking today about accommodations. When you talk to companies today, how do they react when you tell them you know you need to accommodate people with disabilities? What is the reaction you get?
>> JOAN STEIN: Well, the reaction is varied. With larger businesses, a lot of this has -- is not new to them. The ADA came into effect in 1992, but for large businesses or businesses that have any kind of contract with the federal government, they had these types of requirements under the Rehabilitation Act Going back to the late '70s and early '80s. But I think that what the ADA has done in the past 11 years is to extend that same kind of effort and expand it to smaller businesses. Because under the employment provisions of the ADA, if you have 15 or more employees, then you are responsible or required to participate and to comply with the provisions. I get a variety of reactions. A lot of times people go into this fearing the absolute worst, that it's going to cost them millions of dollars to do it or hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it, and that it's going to totally disrupt their business environment.
And when you sit down with someone who comes into that kind of discussion with those anxieties and those expectations, just starting to talk about some of the simple factors that can change and make their business accessible, you see their shoulders start to relax.
So to this day, the primary reaction still is fear. It's fear and it's fear of the unknown.
>> JOYCE BENDER: I would agree with you. I would even say that this fear of the unknown and not being educated about, for example, what you could do for them at ADA Inc. or what the accommodation is going to cost them, I think this fear is so involved, this is what then stops the employment.
>> JOAN STEIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, when the employment provisions of the ADA went into effect in 1992, there was a huge fear, a ground swell fear from employers that on July 26, 1992, hoards of people with disabilities would show up at the front doors of their businesses and demand jobs. And that was their fear. And a lot of that was fed, unfortunately, by the fact that the ADA is a complaint driven law. So, it involves litigation. And when it involves litigation, it involves lawyers. So, a lot of times there was that fear. The reality was people didn't show up in hoards of numbers looking for jobs. Because in a lot of ways, they couldn't get to the front door or they didn't believe that they would be treated or welcomed in to be able to interview and tell the employer how they would do the job. So, the ground swell of fear of who is going to show up, I've had -- and it sounds ridiculous, but it's true. I've had businesses where they thought that someone who was blind was going to come in and apply for a job as an over the road trucker. And they would say do I have to hire them? They're blind, they can't drive.
So you're right, the fear of the unknown is probably the biggest barrier that we face. And the only way to remove that barrier is to educate people. And the very, very best way to educate people is to have them see someone with a disability come into the workplace and perform.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Yes, I agree.
>> JOAN STEIN: That one picture is worth a thousand words. I can talk about it. But the minute someone comes in and starts to relax a bit and they find out that not only is this person capable of doing this work and doing this job, but they have added such an enthusiasm to their work that it becomes infectious, it has a positive impact on the rest of the employees.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Since you're talking about education here, I'm not sure that our listeners will understand or maybe some of the businesses listening today. Maybe you can give them some examples of what we mean by accommodations for employees at the workplace.
>> JOAN STEIN: Sure. Accommodations can take any form. They can take the form of a physical accommodation, which can range from literally needing to build a ramp to get someone into the building. If the building has -- under the ADA, and from a practical standpoint, if you have any change on your sidewalk or a step that is greater than half an inch, that is a barrier to someone who uses a wheelchair or someone who uses a cane or crutches. So to overcome that physical barrier, it may require building a ramp. It may require putting a doorbell on the door, because the door is very big and heavy and someone may need assistance in getting in.
The other physical modifications oftentimes are found in some of the common employee areas. So, if you have a workplace where you've got a break room and you've got a conference room and you've got a place where people gather, to look at trying to make those areas as free of barriers as possible.
The other big area where the accommodations, from a physical standpoint, happen, are in restrooms. And the truth of the matter is there are things that you can do. It can be something as simple, quite honestly, as either taking the door closer off a door or in some situations putting a power button on the -- an automatic opener on the door, because if you can visualize for a minute, if you walk into a narrow doorway, you don't have enough room, if you use a wheelchair, you don't have enough room to get to the door handle and pull the door open, because you're hitting yourself with the door when you try to do that. So putting a button out on the wall that opens that door, then makes that bathroom accessible to that employee.
Sometimes it's something as simple as putting in a higher toilet or adding grab bars in a stall. Or removing one of the stalls to make it a bigger restroom so that someone with a disability can get in and use the restroom the way that all other employees would use it.
Now, that's the physical side of it. There are lots of other kinds of accommodations that literally cost nothing. And before I get much further, I want to address the issue of cost of accommodations.
>> JOYCE BENDER: I want to do that. Because many corporations think if they hire a person with a disability, they have it in their mind right from the beginning: This is going to cost thousands and thousands of dollars. Maybe you can tell everyone what the national average actually is for an accommodation.
>> JOAN STEIN: The national average, the job accommodation network, which is a federally funded agency in West Virginia, does a great job figuring out accommodations for employees. They tracked this for the past 13 years. 80 percent of accommodations cost $500 or less. 80 percent.
>> JOYCE BENDER: 80 percent?
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes. $500 or less.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Just to confirm what Joan is talking about, in August in the USAToday snapshot, they had a snapshot called "Enabling the Disabled." 46 percent of companies that modified their workplaces to accommodate disabled employees, and they had done a survey with over 500 corporations, over 32 percent stated that it cost $100 to $500. And that was the highest percentage, and it goes down from there.
>> JOAN STEIN: Right.
>> JOYCE BENDER: But so many people don't understand that.
>> JOAN STEIN: Well, they don't understand that. And the other issue that they may not be aware of is that there are two provisions under the IRS code. One is the -- is section 44 of the IRS tax code. And I will tell you before we talk about this information that most accountants don't know about these tax credits and tax rebates. So, it's very important. If a --
>> JOYCE BENDER: If your accountants are out there, let them know.
>> JOAN STEIN: The IRS code was created in 1990. It was intended to help small businesses have ADA related access expenditures. What that means is that if businesses have revenues of less than 1 million dollars, or 30 or fewer employees, they are considered eligible for the tax credit. You can spend -- let me tell you what it is covered for. I'm reading this from the code. The tax credit can be used to cover a variety of expenditures, including provision of readers for customers or employees with visual disabilities; provision of sign language interpreter, both of which are not physical structure changes; purchase of adaptive equipment; production of accessible formats of printed materials, that could be putting something in Braille or large print, or computer diskette;
Removal of architectural barriers in facilities or vehicles. And last, a fee for consulting services.
So what happens is that you can spend up to $10,500 a year and get a 50 percent tax credit. So, let's say you spend $10,000 putting in a ramp, you'd get $5,000 tax credit right off the bat for that.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Now, that is a great thing for the small business community, where we know the majority of the hiring is happening today.
>> JOAN STEIN: That is section 44, under section 190 of the IRS code, that provides a tax deduction. First was a tax credit. The second was a tax deduction of up to $15,000 a year. So the scenario, let's say a small business makes $20,000 worth of renovations to remove the access barriers, including hiring someone to come in and do an evaluation and whatever consulting fees they pay. They spent $20,000. They instantly get a five thousand dollar tax credit and then they have $15,000 that is available as a tax deduction.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Well, that is really great! There are so many incentives like this for businesses. My question: Why are more people not taking advantage of this?
>> JOAN STEIN: They don't know about it. You know, everything -- everything that we will talk about today, and everything that I talk about with people every day, comes back to education; comes back to awareness. It dismays me terribly when someone says I wish I would have known about you six months ago. Or I wish I would have known this. I could have or would have done this. It's imperative that people get the correct information, that they find out from reality that the reality is never as bad as their fears. And, you know, to be able to get a business done successfully, and go out and talk to their colleagues, you know, the kinds of groups, like the Rotaries and Kiwanis and service corporations --
>> JOYCE BENDER: hold on. This is Joyce Bender with "Disability Matters."
We will be right back after the break.
>> Welcome back to "Disability Matters" with Joyce Bender. If you have a question or comment for Joyce or her guest, call toll free at 1-888-335-5204.
Back to "Disability Matters," here is Joyce Bender.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Here we are, this is Joyce Bender with our guest today, Joan Stein, the President and CEO of Accessibility Development Associates. And, Joan, one thing we do here on the show is give our listeners the option to either call in, if they have a question, at 1-888-335-5204 or the week before they can send me an e-mail to disabilitymatters@benderconsult.com. So we have a question here for you.
The question is: I work in an old building. The restroom has the railings, but it's not wide enough. I talked to my supervisor and he said they do not have to do anything about this because the building is so old. What do I do?
>> JOAN STEIN: Well, again, this is education. He is not correct. What the ADA requires, there is no such thing under the ADA as what they consider grandfathering, and people say that a lot. My building is old, so it's grandfathered in. What the ADA required was that for any building built before 1992, when the law came into effect, that building owners were obligated to do a survey of the building and do what is called readily achievable barrier removal. The reason for the term "readily achievable" is that they use a standard that fits what your building and what your organization can afford.
So, to simply say to this employee "we don't have to" is wrong.
What this -- what I would recommend this individual doing is maybe going back and talking to the supervisor and showing them or explaining to them the concept of readily achievable.
They can do that, this employee can do that either by going on the Department of Justice website, which is www.DOJ.gov. Or contact me and I'll be more than happy to forward a simple fact sheet that says these are the obligations of buildings that were built prior to 1992.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And I know we will talk about this several times, but just for a moment here, Joan, would you tell everyone how to reach you and your website.
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes. www.adaconsults.com. And our phone number is 412-471-4156. And jwstein@adaconsults.com.
>> JOAN STEIN: How does the accommodations impact restaurants that I'm going to?
>> JOAN STEIN: Well, restaurants are obligated under a totally separate title of the ADA. Restaurants are considered public accommodations. And a public accommodation is any business or where anyone comes through the door to either purchase or receive goods or services. So that means from the corner store that you may buy your lottery tickets, that, you know, mom and pop own it, to a shopping mall, to a huge business. So again what that restaurant was obligated to do, starting back in 1992, was they were, as other buildings were obligated to do, look at their building, identify the barriers and make an effort to remove those barriers.
And I put the emphasis on back in 1992, because that is when the law went into effect. We are coming up in January on the 12th anniversary of the implementation of the requirements. And there are still many, many businesses out there who think that they don't have to comply, or that they still have some time to do that. The answer to both of those questions is no.
So if they are -- so they are obligated to look at their facility and remove the barriers the best way that can be done. And it may take over a period of time.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Well, Joan, when you were talking, several times I've heard you mention reasonable accommodations. And I know that it's stipulated in the ADA. What does that mean? Whenever an employer hears that, what does the ADA mean by reasonable accommodations? Could you give us an example?
>> JOAN STEIN: Sure. What the ADA means in the employment setting for a reasonable accommodation is that it has to be reasonable both from the standpoint of the employer being able to provide it and by it being effective for the employee. What the ADA requires in that kind of setting is for the employee and the employer, or the supervisor or whomever is involved in that situation, to have a dialog. And the dialog has to start with the employee saying: These are the things, these are the kinds of accommodations that I need so that I can perform my job.
Now, an employer must view an employee or a candidate with a disability as qualified. And to be qualified, it means that someone can perform the essential functions of the job with or without a reasonable accommodation.
I'll give you an example. You have someone who may be working as a receptionist. And the person may need an amplified headset, because they wear a hearing aid. And the employer would then -- the employee would sit down with the employer and say I'm qualified to perform the essential functions of this job, being greeting customers and answering the phones. The only accommodation I need is an amplified headset to work in conjunction with my hearing aid. That's the dialog. That is the reasonableness of it.
And it is taken on a case-by-case basis. There is no specific dollar amount that says if you have to spend more than "X" amount of dollars, then that is not reasonable.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And this of course could be an area that you could help a corporation or agency with.
>> JOAN STEIN: Absolutely. A lot of times, again, it comes down to sitting down and having that dialog and finding out -- because the -- we have seen the reverse happen. There is a gentleman that Joyce and I both know Alan Reich, the executive director of the National Organization on Disability. And I use this story as an example. Alan worked for IBM a number of years ago as an executive He sustained a spinal cord injury while employed at IBM. He was not a new applicant coming in looking for a job. He was a seasoned executive who wanted to return to work, and his company wanted him to return to work because the cost to replace him was exorbitant. And his employer was very anxious for him to be able to come back to work. So they really went overboard. I mean, they went out and bought him the kind of desk that did everything short of making coffee.
It was a hydraulic desk and it raised and lowered and it did other things. They were so excited. The first day back to work, he came in and they were excited for him to see the desk, and he couldn't use it. And he looked at them and he said I really wish you would have asked me. All I need you to do is put a couple 2 by 4’s under the legs of my old desk to raise it up for me. Can I have that?
>> JOYCE BENDER: There we go. That is that perfect example.
>> JOAN STEIN: You have to listen to the person with the disability. They are the experts.
>> JOYCE BENDER: I just wanted to mention that Joan truly is an expert in this field and area. And if you have any other questions or comments, as you have in other weeks, feel free to send me an e-mail. disabilitymatters@benderconsult.com. or call 1-888-335-5204. I'll get that e-mail to Joan. Why I'm saying that, I want the listeners to know that Joan really received national accolades. She is headquartered in Pittsburgh, as I am. And Joan worked on PNC Park, our new baseball stadium, which I know they have won a national award from UCP, because I was at the event when they won that award. And I'm so proud of that stadium, that we have an accessible stadium. And we are very proud to have you here, Joan, in Pittsburgh and that you worked with the Pittsburgh Pirates on that.
Maybe you can tell the listeners about that.
>> JOAN STEIN: I'd love to. I'm smiling, because whenever you mention the PNC Park, I smile. When Kevin McClatchy bought the Pirates, and he went over to what was the combination stadium, Three Rivers stadium, he was taken up to what was designated as the handicapped seating, which was behind right field, behind a cage. So when he started to develop the idea for PNC Park, they came to us and made a solid commitment from day one that they didn't want to -- they wanted this ball park to be the most accessible and user friendly ball park in the country. So my partner, Carol Cocuzzi, who uses a wheelchair and does all of our design review, she started with day one. They exceeded standards. Pittsburgh is a small market. We are a struggling team. We don't have the resources that teams like the Yankees and the Mets have. But what they did was they realized that the market was going to demand it. Let me tell you a couple really cool things about PNC Park. The scoreboard has captioning. And all venues are required under the ADA to have closed captioning, which means that they do it in advance. And it comes up on the screen.
The Pirates went the step further and they hired a full time stenographer. So at every game and every event at PNC Park, whatever the announcer is saying comes up on the scoreboard in live captioning.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Which is fantastic.
>> JOAN STEIN: I'll tell you, I've had people tell me, who don't have a hearing loss, that they watch the scoreboard, because it's too noisy and they can't hear what is going on. So they use the scoreboard and the captioning.
We have things like we have 16 family toilet rooms through the PNC Park. Now, a family toilet room was really the original intent was if I'm out and I need assistance from my husband, it gives us privacy in order to do that. But it's also become a family restroom for parents with small opposite sex children and not sending them into the ladies room or the men’s room by themselves. Or for me, with my 90 year old dad who needs help in the restroom. So we have the family restrooms. We have electrical outlets at every wheelchair seat location. So if you have to plug in your battery or recharge your battery, it's there.
But I will tell you that the two most important aspects of PNC Park is, one --
>> JOYCE BENDER: Hold it, don't forget what the two aspects are. I'll ask you. This is Joyce Bender with "Disability Matters."
>> You're listening to VoiceAmerica.com, the world's leader in Internet talk radio.
>> Welcome back to "Disability Matters" with Joyce Bender. If you've got a question, or comment, call toll free at 1-888-335-5204. Back to "Disability Matters," here is Joyce Bender.
>> JOYCE BENDER: This is Joyce Bender, with our guest today, Joan Stein, the President and CEO of Accessibility Development Associates. Joan, what are the two most important aspects of PNC Park?
>> JOAN STEIN: The proudest aspects for me is, one, the best seats in the ball park are the accessible seats. Because they are everywhere. You know, I was bringing a group of architects through, and they said well, we don't see the handicapped seating on the chart. And I said because it's everywhere. So it's not segregated. It's in every price range. It's everywhere in the ball park. So that to me is the quintessential.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And you know what? That sounds so great. When you think of baseball, it is the American past time that we all love, not just one group, but all people with disabilities, including me.
>> JOAN STEIN: Exactly.
>> JOYCE BENDER: You know, when you say it's all through the ball park, the seats are all through the ball park?
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes, they are.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Isn't that the way it should be everywhere?
>> JOAN STEIN: Absolutely. Because people may not realize that one of the issues when you're a wheelchair user is if you're sitting in an entertainment venue, people stand up and cheer when somebody scores a touchdown or they score a home run, or you're at a concert and they are playing your favorite song. Well, if people in front of you are standing up, you can't see over them because you can't stand up. So that's the importance of being able to really be there and participate and be a part of it.
So, that happens everywhere in PNC Park. We have wheelchair seats that are in an area called the danger zone, because it's 25 feet from first base. And we were asked very early on, well, aren't you afraid to have people with disabilities sit there? Won't they get hurt? And we said that's your right to risk. We call it a danger zone. And I would tell you that if you wanted to put small children there as well. But as adults, we have the right to say, you know, we will take that risk.
The other --
>> JOYCE BENDER: You know what, Joan? If anyone, disabled or nondisabled, would be in that seat and get hit hard with a baseball
>> JOAN STEIN: You'd get hurt.
>> JOYCE BENDER: It will hurt anyone no matter who it is. But I think people with disabilities should have the right to participate as they desire.
>> JOAN STEIN: Exactly. We had a situation last season where a member of the Arizona Diamondbacks hit a home run and there was an older woman in a wheelchair who was there with her son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren. She happened to have gotten hit with the ball. And the player went on the news waves and said oh, the Pirates shouldn't have let her sit there. They put her at risk. Well, they had the reporter call me. And the reporter said did the Pirates -- were they in trouble for letting that woman sit there? And I said no. The Pirates would have been trouble if they hadn't let that woman make that choice to sit there. So it's about, you know, making decisions, the same as everyone else makes.
Now, my other most favorite part about PNC park and the accessibility of it, it has nothing to do with the physical structure, you can build the Taj Mahal of accessibility, but if the employees don't know how to act with people with disabilities, you are blown out of the water. We did training the first season with every single employee.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Of the Pittsburgh Pirates?
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes. I was part of what they called the grand slam customer service training. And I'll tell you that some of the most phenomenal feedback I get from people is how nicely they were treated. How welcoming it was. And that people didn't talk about them, they didn't talk to the person who was with them. They said, you know, they really talked to me. They said welcome to PNC Park and they looked at me.
And you can't put a dollar figure on that.
>> JOYCE BENDER: No. You can't. So many people with disabilities are frequently not even communicated to -- no communication.
>> JOAN STEIN: Exactly. So I go around the country and say that PNC Park is the most accessible ball park in the country. There are architects who worked with us on that project and they said well, we did some of this in other cities. I said yes, but the other cities didn't make the commitment that Kevin McClatchy and the Pirates made.
>> JOYCE BENDER: You know what Joan, isn't that a key thing? In this case, he is the owner. But just as if you'd be the CEO of a company, if you have the commitment from the top, doesn't that make a difference?
>> JOAN STEIN: That's it in a nutshell. The commitment has to come from the top. And they have to say that this is part of our culture and our culture says everyone has value.
>> JOYCE BENDER: For those of you listening, we are talking to Joan Stein, the President and CEO of Accessibility Development Associates. This is Joyce Bender. Your host on "Disability Matters." One more time, Joan, and then I have one other question. How do companies reach you if they are interested in working with you?
>> JOAN STEIN: They reach us a variety of ways. On the website, www.adaconsults.com. They can call us at 412-471-4156.
>> JOYCE BENDER: That is adaconsults.com. What do they do, arrange a meeting with you first?
>> JOAN STEIN: I will always be more than happy to talk to somebody and figure out is this something that we can help you with? If we can't help you with it, I'll put you in touch with somebody who can. But yes, we can arrange an initial meeting. We can have an initial discussion. We will find out what your needs are. And take it from there. And we travel all across North America, because it is a federal law. So we are based here in Pittsburgh, but we're probably out of the city more than we're in the city. So there is a --
>> JOYCE BENDER: You can work anywhere in the United States. Anyone interested in working with you or that needs your service, you are able to reach them anywhere or work with them anywhere.
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes.
>> JOYCE BENDER: What is the main area that you would say companies call you for the most?
>> JOAN STEIN: Companies call us for the most to look at their facilities and to determine what the barriers are and to help them remove them and that has become evermore relevant and evermore present, since September 11, 2001. We do a lot of work in helping building owners and companies understand what it's going to take to get people out of a building.
You know, I say to people that, of the thousands of people who died in the World Trade Center on September 11, only one of them was a wheelchair user. And he worked on the 100th floor. And he sent his assistant down the stairwell and his best friend stayed with him and they both died.
So the moral of that story is you don't know who is in your building and what their ability may or may not be to get out. You could have someone who has a panic disorder that hasn't told you. So, you know, ironically, it's usually your employees who have disabilities and talked to you about it that will be the easiest to evacuate.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And these are all areas that you're able to help.
>> JOAN STEIN: absolutely.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And you work with agencies, federal or state agencies?
>> JOAN STEIN: Yes. Federal agencies and state agencies, when they have been sued under the ADA, we have gone in, we had a contract with the Pennsylvania lottery, and talk about success stories. They were sued because they were licensing stores to sell lottery tickets that were not wheelchair accessible. And under the ADA, the plaintiff said look, we want to have the same chance to win the power ball as anyone else. So, my staff and I went out and over two years evaluated more than 6,000 locations across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And some of these were very, very tiny mom and pop stores. But what we were able to do was to go in to show them some things that they could do, and to explain to them that if someone comes in to buy a lottery ticket, chances are that is not the only thing they are going to be spending their money on.
And to help businesses understand, and this is a phenomenal number, but it's true. More than 67 billion, with a "B", billion dollars a year, spent by people with disabilities and their families.
Do you want to lose out on that market?
>> JOYCE BENDER: 67 billion dollars spent by people with disabilities. Of course, if you're a company, agency, whatever, could be monies directed to you.
>> JOAN STEIN: Could be monies directed to you. And if you hire someone with a disability, they become a taxpayer.
>> JOYCE BENDER: And are once again contributing to the economy.
>> JOAN STEIN: And contributing to the economy and part of the fabric of the community.
I'll tell you one of the things that is probably the most relevant to people, we are all going to have -- we are all going to join the disability experience at some point in our life. Now, that typically makes people uncomfortable, because they are afraid, my God, my life is going to be over if I incur a disability. The reality as we both know is life is different. But, we are baby boomers, I'm a baby boomer. We are not aging gracefully. This is going to be ugly.
So, when we look at designing and retrofitting buildings, look at it in the way that if you're a parent pushing a baby stroller, you're an adult working age person, pushing a wheelchair, or you're my 90 year old father who uses a walker, we all want to come in.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Everyone wants to come in. I know we are coming to an end here soon on the show. First I want to thank Joan Stein, the President and CEO of Accessibility Development Associates, Incorporated, she is a wonderful person. Great business leader, and we are proud that we had you on the show.
>> JOAN STEIN: Thank you very much.
>> JOYCE BENDER: Thank you for being on the show. I think as we talked about accommodations, I'll end with a quote from former President Bush when he signed the ADA. "We must not rest until every American with a disability has the opportunity to participate fully and that rich mosaic of the American mainstream that forms our country's heart and soul."
See you next week. Hope you're listening. This is Joyce Bender. Bye-bye.
>> VoiceAmerica would like to thank you for joining in, join us next Tuesday for another session of "Disability Matters" right here on VoiceAmerica.com.